Eve's Guide for Regular Guys: Episode 17 - The Friend Zone

54:15 Eve's Guide For Regular Guys episode 17 / 18 Feb 18, 2018 42 comments 4883 2658

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This is a long episode! I covered a lot in this episode, so I hope you’ll get comfy, get a snack, and give this some thought.

In this episode I talk about:

  • The difference between friendship and "The Friend Zone"
  • The differences in attitudes and sex drive between men and women
  • Why many women aren’t too eager for "Friends With Benefits", etc
  • An analogy! A long one
  • Why you shouldn’t remain in anyone’s Friend Zone
  • What to do if you are in the FZ

This episode has evoked a lot of commentary, and because of the nature of some of it, I'm not going to respond to comments on this audio. Feel free to discuss it yourselves, but I've said what I have to say about it

However, thanks to a question by Georgio, I do want to clarify one point that I'm afraid I didn't express as clearly as I could, so let me try to do that now.

Regarding my statement that women care about what a man does, not what he is, please let me be clear that I'm not implying a woman won't love you for your personality, your character, your mind, your soul, or all the things that make you who you are. She absolutely will. A woman is definitely looking for the same things in a partner that you are - a nice personality, a sense of humour, intelligence, kindness, generosity, a loving heart.

What I didn't explain well enough is that when a woman sees a man doing something she is impressed by, like drawing or playing an instrument or fixing a car or anything, it makes her want to get to know him, it makes her want to find out if he is all those things she wants. Just the way a pretty girl makes you want to find out more about her, to get to know her more. It's that old saying, in a nutshell - "looks or good luck may open doors for you, but your personality is what keeps them open". A woman will fall in love with everything that is you, just as you will with her. What you love and are good at is just a way to draw her eye at first.

All I meant to do was ease your minds if you're worried that you're not good looking, ripped, tall or 'sexy' enough. I meant to assure you that a woman is going to be impressed by those aspects of you that shine through when you do things you love and are good at.

I hope this clears that up for you, Geo, thanks for asking. 💋


Other audios in Eve's Guide For Regular Guys

Comments

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  • Perpetuous on 2018-03-17 23:17:15 (UTC) (edited)

    Saying that women don't care as much about looks as man do is hilarious.

    There is absolutely no way a guy will ever overcome his physical attractiveness by having a million hobbies, a good job and whatever. All these things will add to his attractiveness if the woman is already at least physically attractive to them.

    Show me one woman on this planet who thinks "Oh yeah that guy plays guitar, he's great even though he's ugly".

    Also, staying friends with a person you love but they don't reciprocate is not healthy. The person in love will never get over it when they just stay friends with that person as if their love for them suddenly dissipates.

    The "friendzone" is a weird thing. A lot of guys will try to be friends to get in the woman's pants, but there's also a lot of guys who simply developed feelings while being friends and getting to know that woman. If she doesn't reciprocate, the only option you have as a guy to not get mad in your head is to drop that friendship. You will never get over her by staying friends with her. Sucks for the friendship, sucks for the woman because she didn't do anything wrong but that's how it goes.

  • DKiger on 2018-03-04 19:15:40 (UTC)

    Hi Eve,

    I liked a lot of the things that you said. You do a very good job at looking at both sides of the equation. However, there was one point where I feel that your insight was a bit more one-sided than usual, which is the societal effect on sexual behavior. This is an important point because it informs us of why men would appear to "need" sex even assuming biological needs are similar. Men feel a large amount of societal pressure to be sexually successful, so much so that it becomes tied to our self-esteem. In much the same way that women can be looked down upon for being "too sexually available," men are frequently looked down upon for being "too sexually inexperienced." If we are told from an early age that men "need" sex, at what point will we start believing it? And at what point will we start behaving accordingly?

  • finaldestination on 2018-02-24 05:45:35 (UTC)

    I love your podcasts as well as your erotic audios. Thank you for sharing your silky voice with the world!

    You have such a relatable and intelligent way of conveying your thoughts. It really makes me want to improve my speaking ability.

  • Outlaw on 2018-02-24 00:09:22 (UTC)

    howdy Eve, this one unsettled me... in a good way... probably... didn't like things more before but i may be back in monk mode for a bit till the thinking catches up. good, from the heart, powerful... ;)

  • leytod on 2018-02-23 15:51:18 (UTC)

    Great episode about a surprisingly common and difficult conflict between men & women. I suspect that most every man has experienced this in one way or another. I certainly have. It's just a product be being social; you're going to meet people who you're more into than they are you, and vise-versa. I like your advice to take advantage of being on a girl's friend list and rely on them for opinions. I can think of two instances of years past where I was very good friends with hot girls. They told me stories in confidence that they wouldn't tell even their girlfriends. One asked me to read her private, erotic stories. Another asked for my help to make sexy photographs of her. They helped me "see" when other girls were into me, since I suffer from that interest radar deficit problem common to many guys. And they were both honest with their advice - when I asked - which saved me from a lot of embarrassment.

    Here's my best advice for guys fortunate to be friends with hot girls: hang out and BE SEEN with them! When girls see that you're trusted and "verified" by another female, they'll be much more likely to approach.

  • JI1 on 2018-02-20 15:28:13 (UTC)

    You are changing my perspectives. Lots of things have changed. I like things that I never thought I would ever like & at the same time I don't like the things as much as I used to like. I totally agree with you. It's serendipity meeting you.💝

  • Karl on 2018-02-19 17:26:24 (UTC) (edited)

    I totally got the analogy, and yea I can confirm that men are desperate to "to know" women who they find "hot", the amount of cringy comments and posts I've read on social media on girls pages it's ridiculous.

    I'm not in that category of "desperately" looking for sex. I personally need to have common interests with a girl to want to know her.

    I find it really dumb and pathetic to start talking to some random chick without even having anything really to talk about. I feel like a moron.

    I've never been in the "friend zone", never really had female friends either, but I've read comments especially on "pickup sites" or "Dating sites" from men saying that "they went out with women got along really well, but those women didn't want to see them again".

    Now what's that supposed to mean ? Did they have things in common, did laugh at the same type of humor, then if that's the case why those women didn't want to see them again ?

    I don't know the circumstances, this is just speculation.

    Also I keep reading the same advices on "what to do to attract women" like: be funny, be ambitious, be confident, have an interesting life(whatever that's supposed to mean ?)

    If women are attracted by what some dudes doing then being, means what ? That no matter how many things in common you have with her she won't want to be more then mates because she doesn't like what you're "doing" with your life ?

    If I find someone with whom I share many interests, books, movies, music, similar social/political views, she won't want more then friendship if I don't have a well paid job,or DOING something "interesting" with my life ?

    It seems to me women are much more materliastic then men, if they are "attract" to what someone's DOING, then BEING. It means once you stop doing that, she'll just dump you ? It means she isn't interested in YOU but in what you are doing ?

    Also what should I DO with my life that women find "attractive"? That's another question with no concrete answer.

    All these "advices" on "what to do" in order to be attractive to the opposite sex are really, really vague, and are just exasperatingly frustrating.

    Like seriously the more I read the more questions I'm asking myself.

    If we share lots of things in common at least to me it's clear that I'd like to know her better, but apparently that's not an indicative for her, she might still not find me "attractive" because I'm not doing something "interesting"(or rather that she finds "interesting").

    It's like when you go to an interview for a job, they'll ask you loads of questions, they'll even give you tests/projects, you pass the tests, but you still don't get the job for an unknown reason, and you're driving yourself insane trying to figure out why.

    Basically not matter what you do with your pathetic little life, how you look, how you think, you still won't be "good enough" for some.

    Madness, and some are making millions by selling fools "guides' on how to be and what to do in order to attract women. Ridiculous.

    It's not science, there's literally no concrete, correct answer, just speculation, which are subjective.

    • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 19:16:50 (UTC)

      Haha @Karl the thing is there's more than one way to get a woman. Some women end up with guys who don't do any of those big careers. Hell i seen women here, that choose men who ain't got shit going for them. These women be taking care of these men too. So it's important to remember that you have to do your own thing. Be who you are! If a woman doesn't like it or she dumps you because that thing that she love that you did didn't work out; then she never really was the one. Find someone who into who you are as a person. A true test of a woman loyalty is when you don't have much or life gets rough. Hang in there buddy⭐

      • Karl on 2018-02-20 12:51:52 (UTC)

        All sounds well and good, but where am I supposed to find that type of women ? Haven't you heard ? Women like what you do not what you are.

        • someguy on 2018-02-20 19:19:02 (UTC)

          Luck

          Oh yeah and just keep trying, even when it's soul-crushingly depressing.

          Seems like all the answers here can be reduced to that.

        • Georgio36 on 2018-02-20 17:31:48 (UTC)

          Karl that's not entirely true. Eve offered her perspective on this subject. Yes some women may very well ne atrracted to what you do. Some women like men who don't do shit lol. I have seen it & heard about it. But you want a woman who likes who you are as a person. There are women out there that do i promise. I wish Eve could have clarified what that means & answer a few more questions. I wouldn't lie to you man. It really does the depend on the type of woman you are trying to get. Im sorry this part of audio had you a bit confused. Please don't believe everything that part about a woman not liking who you are cuz she should.

  • Tractorman1 on 2018-02-19 15:46:48 (UTC) (edited)

    Sorry if there's too much information in this comment. I've mentioned the things I have for the simple reason I would find it difficult to contribute otherwise. Please feel free to delete this post if you find it to be inappropriate. Your comments about 'the Friend Zone' evoked a lot of memories, some good and some not so good. I lost my virginity in the back of my car (doesn't get better than that!) at 18 to a married friend and colleague (most of you would say 'co-worker', I guess) whose husband was a good looking guy a few years older than herself. They married when she was only 17 (no kids, just a very young bride) and she soon regretted it. Usual scenario, we liked each other a lot, I made her laugh (in a good way, I believe) more than he ever did and we took advantage of our limited opportunities to be together until, of course, I ended up with my first broken heart. I know, I know, I shouldn't have been there in the first place. She took a job elsewhere and remained with him for another few months before divorcing him and I never saw her again. I know that didn't strictly constitute an FZ relationship but it came close enough once the reality of its limited shelf life kicked in. I wouldn't know how to analyse it other than to say it was stupid and I loved every moment until it inevitably came to an end. A few year later I was again trapped in a variation of the FZ with a young lady who was the female incarnation of me (I'll call her Sue). We shared pretty much the same interests and beliefs (politically I was just slightly to the left of her), we were both sports-minded and travelled, in the company of others, to watch our football team play up and down the country and always, whatever activity we were involved in, ended up together somehow. She looked out for me and I looked out for her. We were both single and regularly visited each other's homes unannounced. Many believed, wrongly, we were 'an item'. I'm not sure how to say this but whilst I had sexual thoughts about her, I kind of thought of her as someone who regarded me as something like an extremely close friend and/or reliable confidant and I was aware of other men who liked her. I was anxious not to spoil what we had in terms of friendship by pressuring her into anything. (Don't know if that makes sense, but that's how I felt.) Later on, I struck up a naughty, little relationship with a girl who, to be horribly blunt, couldn't hold a candle to Sue, but testosterone is what it is sadly. One of my male friends surprised me when he told me he'd learnt Sue was saddened that I'd chosen to be with the other girl instead of herself. The next time I was at Sue's place we went to bed together for the first time and it was great, better than it was with my new friend. I'll leave it at that. This was a good while ago but I still choose to believe Sue was happy to have had me exactly where I was (platonically) and only reacted once I'd met the other girl. There wasn't a second time for Sue and me because I was that moth, to use your phrase, hopelessly drawn to the other girl's flame. She soon dumped me!!!

    • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 19:24:20 (UTC)

      Aww @Tractorman listen man, we aren't here to judge you man. We all make mistakes, & what's important that you learn from those mistakes. Don't let them kill your spirit. Sometimes we don't know how good we got it. With the next girl, make sure she has the same qualities as Sue. Don't be afraid to share how you truly feel upfront & what you are looking for. There will be other opportunities to meet another good woman. Just be good to her when you do find her ok ⭐

    • CharlieRomeoLima on 2018-02-19 16:17:47 (UTC)

      It's only too much information if the disclosure causes you discomfort. We're all flawed human beings and relationships, far from being this panacea for life's problems, can be messy and present challenges that aren't perfectly navigated by the best of us. Of course hindsight is, like they say, 20/20. Thank you for sharing your experience.

      • Tractorman1 on 2018-02-19 17:32:23 (UTC)

        Thank you Charlie. I appreciate your comments and feel more comfortable with my post having read them.

  • Arcturus on 2018-02-19 07:04:04 (UTC)

    Thank you for the much needed perspective.

  • SamuelXD on 2018-02-19 06:08:28 (UTC)

    So, after listening to it, I actually have been in "The Friend Zone" before, especially as a teenager. But, I've realized that the ones I was attracted to and was friends with, I haven't seen them again. I'm actually cool with the fact I have girl friends in my small friendship circle, as I only see them as friends and in some cases sisters.

    It's true that being in "The Friend Zone" does suck, but I don't put a huge value on that. For as long as I can remember, I've said to myself if I find someone I fall in love with, then great, but if not, then it's ok and if it never happens, then it was never meant to be. Until then, I'm just gonna lay low, do my thing and accept myself for who I am. Maybe that someone will too.

  • NerdyNick on 2018-02-19 04:57:15 (UTC) (edited)

    Okay... I'm gonna be a bit of the dissenting or differing view on certain things... On the whole topic of the "Friend Zone," don't know, don't care because I'm not a man that's gonna stay friends with a woman I want to have sex with or love. I'm more of a "let's just go our separate ways" guy.

    1.) Eve, it's 2018 and you're in America... Can you PLEASE stop with this "women are shamed for their sexuality" excuse? Almost quite literally for the past few years, I've never seen this. I've only ever heard feminists complain they are-unless I'm just REALLY unobservant. In fact, I've seen the opposite. So much so that it's socially acceptable to mock (not joke, MOCK) men for not being able to give women orgasms, even if they are trying.

    2.) In the lottery anolgy, you did a victim-blaming bit... Really Eve? I always imagined you, of all people, would know that's bullshit. Again, Eve it's post Harvey Weinstein, 2018 America... There is currently a Witch Hunt for not just men in Hollywood, but literally ANY man that's had any interaction with a woman ever. I'ts so bad that men are avoiding women more than they ever did before, I know I am at least. So PLEASE don't give me this "were you asking for it?" shit. Is just a tiny bit of questioning or skepticism when a woman makes a rape.sexual harassment accusation count as victim-blaming to you?

    3.) Judging from the lottery analogy, if it's that fucking miserable to be a woman with sex appeal... Why bother with men? Not sure if that was just hyperbole or not, but it's true... Why bother with men anyway?

    That's about it... Everything else I either somewhat agree with you on or just don't care because it doesn't apply to me.

    • leytod on 2018-02-23 16:16:26 (UTC)

      and you're in America

      Ha ha ha.

    • billymacorbuddy on 2018-02-19 15:17:31 (UTC) (edited)

      I just want to offer a couple points for you to consider for the sake of civil discussion.

      1) Unless something has changed that I'm not aware of, Eve is not in America. She has been a woman working in the adult entertainment industry for a while now and has a perspective that we, as consumers and men, will not experience. So her opinion carries some weight. If she sees examples of women being shamed, I tend to believe her. Nobody should be shamed or mocked for their sexuality. But talking about a woman's perspective does not discount a man's perspective, it's just someone else's experience.

      2) Victim blaming does happen. I served on a jury where in one case a woman woke up to a man raping her while she slept. The physical evidence was there, the man admitted to it, but the prosecutor did not want to go to trial because the woman had been drinking the night before. "She needs to take responsibility for her actions" (actual quote). So now an admitted rapist walks free because she was drunk.

      3) Of all the women out there, Eve is in our corner. She plainly states that she loves men. If she still bothers with men it's probably because the good out weighs the bad. But don't expect her to defend or excuse bad behavior.

      • NerdyNick on 2018-02-19 17:03:16 (UTC)

        @billymacorbuddy 1.) I'm pretty sure she lives in America. If not, she definitely lives with in Western society. Regardless, that still doesn't change the fact that it's 2018 America... And I fail to see this sex-shaming of women she always claims. Also her being a woman and us being mean means nothing. I'm not speaking as a man, I'm speaking as a human that's observed modern day society and this is my observation.

        2.) One example (which I don't even really believe) doesn't disprove my statement. To be a little mean here, it seems like you're a bit desperate on this regard. I never said victim-blaming NEVER happens. I said it rarely happens.

        3.) I wasn't talking about Eve. I was asking Eve if this is the experiences of attractive women, why should they even bother. And if she's speaking from experience, then the question is indeed for her. Not sure if you actually LISTENED to the anolgy. Basically an attractive woman's life is just men wanting to fuck them nonstop, 24/7. Oh yeah and let's not forget all that sex-shaming and victim-blaming too... So my question STILL stands... Why bother then? And as I've stated before, maybe it's just hyperbole or accidentally made it sound like it happens WAAAY more often than it actually does.

        • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 19:31:20 (UTC)

          @NerdyNick Eve is from over seas. Secondly it's ok to question things from the audio & yet be mature about it. Some of the stuff you talked about i actually agreed with me. At the end of the day, we come to hear this series of advice from Eve in hopes that we can become better men & of course attract the woman we want for the right reasons. I knew what was gonna happen when this topic came up lol. But Eve means well ⭐

        • billymacorbuddy on 2018-02-19 18:05:07 (UTC)

          1) But men and women will have different experiences, and that will color our view of how we observe things. You may fail to see shaming, but somebody else might, because their experiences are different from yours.

          2) Unfortunately the example is true. My point is that victim blaming probably happens more than you realize.

          3)I did listen to the analogy. Perhaps we're interpreting what we heard differently. I stand by my original point. I'll refrain from speculating on the 'why bother' question any further. Perhaps a woman who has been in that situation will chime in.

          • NerdyNick on 2018-02-19 20:41:30 (UTC)

            1.) Once again, this has nothing to do with experiences. It's an observation I made as a human, not a man. Apparently there's A LOT of sex-shaming every time Eve brings it up... So should it be REALLY visible and obvious to see? Where is it?

            2.) Except it doesn't... Are you like uber male feminist or some shit? There's literally no way you can be this delusional on topics like this and not be.

            3.) What-the-fuck-ever dude.

            • Georgio36 on 2018-02-20 00:09:27 (UTC) (edited)

              @NerdyNick 1.) i think you made your point man. Its ok to disagree with certain things in this audio. There was some things i didn't agree with BUT please be respectful to other members. No need to throw out cuss word cuz you don't agree with another person.

              2.) Billy wasn't trying to be smart with you. He was simply sharing his thoughts on the situation. He meant no disrespect.

              3.) Eve wants us to listen to these audios with an opinion mind. To look at both perspectives like what billy stated. She is here to help not bash us men. She's not like those feminists on tv & social media who clearly hate men. So please don't try to take what the purpose of her making this audio out of context. We all are here for the same thing. To be better as men, learn how to find the right lady for us some day & to shower Eve with love & admire her voice. Not to insult each other, kiss ass, or be someone we not ok. I wish you well man ⭐

            • billymacorbuddy on 2018-02-19 21:04:31 (UTC)

              I think our conversation is over. Best of luck to you.

      • CharlieRomeoLima on 2018-02-19 16:02:39 (UTC)

        That's awful to hear about an admitted rapist getting off the hook.

        Last year a former Federal Court judge (Robin Camp) resigned from the bench after recommendations by the Canadian Judicial Council that Parliament remove him, because of prejudicial, grossly insensitive remarks he made in court to a sexual assault victim in 2014 (who at the time was a marginalized 19 year old homeless addict). As a judge he certainly victim blamed her, referring to her as 'the accused' and asking her things like, "Why couldn't you just keep your knees together?" or why she couldn't 'skew her pelvis' or 'sink her bottom' into the sink to resist being raped, before acquitting the defendant.

        • leytod on 2018-02-23 16:30:05 (UTC)

          There's more to that case than the way the media reported it. The judge was doing his correct job by challenging the woman's statements because the circumstances of that case were odd. It wasn't obvious to the court that the woman made clear to the man that she didn't want sex or that she did anything to stop it.

    • someguy on 2018-02-19 05:27:12 (UTC) (edited)

      It's reasonable to be paranoid as a man these days, since our side of the story never enters the equation by default. Reputation and career can be removed instantly. As a college student, I worry about this a lot. Both parties must be 100 percent sober, and consent must be "enthusiastic and ongoing", yet it can be revoked at any time without stating so out loud.

      I'm trying to phrase this comment as reasonably as possible, but even expressing this opinion is considered unacceptable now a days.

      Obviously I'm not saying don't believe women, I'm just saying that men don't have a say.

      • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 09:39:49 (UTC)

        @Someguy you shouldn't feel ashamed or scared to voice your opinion bro. That's what they want you to do. If you feel you are right & knowledgeable about something; speak your mind. Fight for what you know is right. You'll be respected for it. Yes it's scary nowadays to be a men cuz one word from someone claiming you sexually harassed them & it's over. When you at work, or at school; try not to be so friendly with them. Don't be hugging all on them & especially at work; don't be going places alone with them & you should be fine 👍. You just have to be aware of where you at & who you are around

      • NerdyNick on 2018-02-19 05:43:15 (UTC) (edited)

        I know, I agree. I just have a major pet-peeve with Eve constantly stating how women are shamed for their sexuality or that the decent majority still victim-blame... As she's living in a time and place where these things barely happen, but is quite possibly one of the best times to be a woman... It's hunting season on men.

        • CharlieRomeoLima on 2018-02-19 07:06:24 (UTC)

          I follow Eve's Twitter so I understand she's clearly not fixated on how women are shamed for their sexuality like, and you're right about this, some feminists are. She's fully aware of how good women have it today (e.g. wage gap myth, significantly higher female post-secondary enrollment, full control over reproduction to the total exclusion of the father's wishes, etc.) and if I know one thing about Eve she clear as night and day opposes sex/body shame against anyone, women or man. When feminists last year railed against Matt Damon voicing a dissenting opinion to the excesses of #metoo, she tweeted in his defence because his remarks were rational and shouldn't be censored.

          I agree there is a witch hunt against men by idealogues, and Liam Neeson recently said as much, to the expected ire and backlash from those seeking to silence him too because his remarks, condemned as insensitive, do not fit neatly into their identity politics agenda. Mr. Neeson strikes me as a no-nonsense man and that they want to shut him up too illustrates how rabid radical elements of the #metoo movement can be.

          • someguy on 2018-02-19 07:38:14 (UTC)

            Seems like there's no clear answer about what to do for average guys who aren't seeking to avoid women completely. I feel like I'm pretty intuitive about people, but still, there are no guarantees.

  • CharlieRomeoLima on 2018-02-19 04:02:17 (UTC)

    A long episode of the Guide, true, but absorbing enough that it did not feel like an hour had passed since clicking 'play'. The lottery analogy was a fitting one that speaks to pretty much everyone and, as you say, has perfect parallels with the state of having other desirables be it status, fame, popularity, and yes, physical beauty esp. for a woman. When you mentioned people responding to your attempts to report e.g. missing money from your wallet with "you're overreacting" or "you're being unfair" I drew a connection with the tactics of relationship gaslighters trying to foment self-doubt and make you question your reality, an association that renders the whole idea of the friendzone even more unsavoury and selfishly manipulative than I had previously thought (and I already considered it a pretty entitled mindset to begin with).

    As an 'aging millennial' past my hormonally-charged 20s I'm kind of grateful to having been naive to the friend zone concept until later in my youth; I had seen it for what it was - unrequited love/lust and the resentment it could potentially breed. I could only imagine the kind of emotional damage the concept may have wrought (as if I didn't have enough things to decimate my self-esteem) had I encountered the friend zone as a desperately lonely 18-year-old on subreddits like ForeverAlone, IncelTears, or TheRedPill, or from such toxic channels as RooshV or some rubbish PUA/seduction community forum. I feel like I dodged an artillery shell there. :P The wisdom you impart in this Episode of Eve's Guide is something I really hope becomes viral and garners a listen count to rival 'ASMR Ultimate Blowjob' (which fyi has 688k+ listens) because there's no shortage of people out there who would benefit greatly to hear your words on this topic.

    Yes, it really is so random what impresses women (and people in general) - the other day I impressed (and freaked out in a good fun way) a female colleague when I showed her my mutant superpower: my double-jointed thumbs. 😆

    P.S. To be included in an audio shoutout was the bees knees - had a nice shiver run up my spine! Irish is definitely not a 'useful' language outside Eire but it does give some insight on its influence on the English language. For example, did you know that the word smithereens comes from the Irish word 'smidiríní', or less esoterically for connoisseurs of distilled spirits, the origin of the word whiskey comes from Irish 'uisce beatha' or 'water of life'.

  • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 03:30:14 (UTC)

    Oh my my sweet Eve lol, that quite the information to absorb 😄. I do appreciate your insight & some of it you did mention in previous episodes in this series. I like how you keep true & wouldn't try to make us feel bad. As for the subject of friendzone & friendship what im about to share is what i learned the hard way, from experiences/talks i had with women & the men i seen them really go after. Also talks i had with men who overcome the friendzone. This may be long but it will be helpful to the guys of this lovely community here.

    Ok the thing is when a good man whose not just looking for sex but love too (which i assume all the guys here are) he should find out after taking time to getting to know a woman well; ask what she's looking to accomplish in her life as in goals. Ask is she looking for a relationship or just something casual. Most shouldn't have no problem being honest about that.

    Secondly, watch her actions. Does she make time for you as in calling to check on you & asking about your life, asking you to hang out with her not just with a group of people. Do you catch her staring at you, or do she finds ways to be close to you. Also does she make an effort to get back to you if she missed your call. Watch if she ignores you but talks to everyone else. That will help you save time & energy

    • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 03:31:01 (UTC)

      Lastly Eve, i have seen some women not all yet beautiful ones with dudes who don't do shit for them. These guys barely work, they don't ask about her day or compliment her much yet these women pick these guys cuz of maybe a control issue or self esteem. They'll keep good men on the back burner when the ain't shit men ignore them. My advice to all you guys is to stay away from these types of girls. Also don't be so quick to say hi to them & compliment them. If she doesn't seem approachable, friendly; just leave her alone. Focus on you, build your life up & the women will come to YOU. Also try areas other than bars & clubs to find women ok.

      Anyways thanks for the awesome audio. Because honestly i have women that im friends with but they are in relationships or long distance so im not trying to ruin that. However most guys who are single; don't want to be just a woman friend if this is someone he fancies. But anywayz lol, have a lovely day & i hope everybody here finds a good woman 💙💜❤

  • billymacorbuddy on 2018-02-19 02:54:56 (UTC)

    When I heard you were doing an episode on the 'friend zone' I was very curious to hear what you had to say about it. Personally, I find the idea of the FZ to be kind of insulting. If you're a guy who walks around saying, "Aw man, she friend zoned me" you're probably not being her friend for the right reasons. Unless you're just looking for a one time fling, you need to be her friend if you hope to have a romantic relationship. If it's clear that she's not interested in you romantically, then you owe it to yourself to move on.

    And totally did not expect a shout out, thanks Eve! Your last line took the words right out of my mouth. You have to have your own thing going. You'll be happier for it. Just make sure that your own thing is your own thing. Otherwise you may end up with 3 guitars in your closet that you're really not interested in learning how to play (Just and example, I totally didn't buy guitars in college to impress a girl (I totally did)).

  • someguy on 2018-02-19 00:35:55 (UTC)

    Interesting episode, I'm glad that you take the male perspective into account instead of just writing us off as bitter, angry, out of touch, and whatnot because we tend to prioritize sex.

    In my case, the being vs. doing thing is where the majority of my frustration comes from. I have a ton of passions (music being the main one, but I could write out a long list) that haven't done anything for me with regards to women. And yes, these passions and hobbies are a higher priority for me then dating, so I know how to pull off that "asshole" move of focusing on doing my own thing all the time. It's just a bummer, creative/artistic pursuits are supposed to be sexy - it's so ingrained in culture.

    I truly feel like I'm a decent guy, but it's been nonstop rejection. At least I'm not dealing with virginity, but I haven't had sex in years and years. I'm decently in shape, hygiene and fashion are fine, I have normal social skills, etc. I guess I've been doing something wrong my entire life, or I'm "not trying hard enough". It just makes me feel like I gotta be insanely ripped AND have an elite job AND be extremely charismatic AND have a laundry list of stories and achievements to brag about AND so on and so forth. Because if I were doing it right, then it would be easy, correct? So the bottom line becomes, I'm not good enough. I can't blame the women who've rejected me, because of course there's no obligation. It is what it is.

    Just describing my experience here, not out to complain or whine. More than anything it's just confusing and reinforces my apathy. If I had no prospects, ambitions, hobbies, or skills and never tried to meet women at all, then I would say "Ok yeah I see the problem here", but instead I feel like I'm a great, well-rounded guy who just isn't good enough.

    • Georgio36 on 2018-02-19 03:40:43 (UTC)

      Hi @Someguy first of all you aren't just "some" guy you are a great guy with amazing talents it seems 😊. You just had a bunch of bad experiences with women that have ruin your self esteem that's all. It hurts being rejected i know. Most women probably won't know how that feels but some do. One thing i learned about rejection is that it means that lady wasn't the one God has for you. By those ladies rejecting you, you actually dodged a bullet. Because imagine if you did get with them & they make you miserable as fuck. So no, don't blame yourself entirely. I will say that maybe you just made bad choices in the women you dated or had crushes on. My advice to you is try different women. Try meeting in different places. Don't be so quick to be in their face especially if they won't even talk to you. So change that mindset right now to you are good enough. You have everything you need to attract a good lady already. Lay low, & focus on you. When you do that; you'll find happiness. Check out my answer above if you need more help 😊⭐

      • someguy on 2018-02-19 05:31:27 (UTC)

        Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm having an easier time focusing on myself as I enter my late 20s (relative to my early 20s), but phases come and go where it's more difficult.

        I probably should try different places. I usually just try to get to know women at school, but that does tend to set me up as a guy just looking for friends and not sex/relationships.

  • Jandrusel on 2018-02-18 23:34:57 (UTC) (edited)

    A very insightful on a topic that's gets a lot of talk these days. And sadly, it has caused suffering to thousands of people out there. For me, it's always thought the "friend-zone" was a word used by entitled guys who 'deserved' sex just cos' of their niceness. Yes, unrequited love is a bummer. And yes, it hurts so much when he/she doesn't even notice your feelings. But pretending friendliness in order to gain 'sex' or a 'relationship' is completely demeaning towards him/her. And even more, a great desservice to oneself as a person.

    As Eve says, it's really hard (especially for us, men) to not feel inferior when we are in this kind of situation. But life isn't fair for anyone. Women don't get a pass on this either. Hell, I did 'friend-zoned' a woman this year. She was all around a good woman. But as much as she insisted and pressured me, and as much as I tried to feel any sort of love towards her... I couldn't bring myself to it. Sometimes, the emotions, the chemicals, or whatever you want to call it, are not there. And you can't fight that. It's better to move on as best as you can than to keep beating a dead horse. Sometimes, it doesn't happen. It's not mean to.

    On the other hand, men sometimes underestimate the benefits of good friendship with a member of the opposite sex. I should know, I have a really awesome girl friend. There's no attraction involved but we do trust each other. She's a really good listener, she's fun to hang out with, she gives me emotional support and advice whenever I need it, and all around, she's been a great pal to me. Often times seeing value in me when I didn't. I always wanted to have a relationship like this with a woman of my age. Am I a 'beta' kind of man for being her friend while she's attracted to other dudes? Don't think so.

    Though I have to say, I wish women would stop rejecting men using the whole "you're a really funny, charming and incredible guy but I don't see you that way". Even though it's polite, I found it even more damaging to your self-esteem in the long run. With that kind of answer you're always waiting around for the miracle to happen. And you always end up disappointed and berating yourself for not being enough. A solid "no, sorry", while harsher, can be better for both parties.

    PS: Much love to you Eve

  • Vermouth1991 on 2018-02-18 20:58:22 (UTC)

    This was very informative, Eve. On both sides of the gender equation.